In this enlightening episode of Skin & Within, join Claire Gray as she engages in a heartfelt conversation with Catherine Lawson, a passionate advocate for balance in our chaotic lives. Together, they explore the challenges of achieving work-life balance, the importance of digital detox, and the power of healthy habits.
Catherine shares her personal journey from burnout to a renewed focus on self-care, highlighting the significance of plant-based nutrition in fostering physical and mental well-being. They discuss the transformative effects of small dietary changes and the impact of social connections on our overall happiness.
Discover practical strategies for navigating the pressures of modern life, including the necessity of setting boundaries, the role of technology, and the vital importance of sleep in maintaining balance. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone seeking to reclaim their time and find harmony amidst the chaos.

To find out more go to Catherine's website Barefaced Life

 

Transcript: 

Catherine's mission is helping people find balance in today's fast paced world

So, Catherine, welcome. Thank you so much, Catherine for coming along today and take the time out to chat to me about your mission which is helping us to find balance in the chaos.

>> Claire Gray: Thank you for inviting me.

>> Claire Gray: My pleasure. I mean, I think this is something that we all struggle with and we crave balance in today's fast paced life and chaotic world. So I'm hoping today you're going to give us lots of tips on how to find.

>> Claire Gray: I'll do my best. I'm constantly searching myself.

>> Claire Gray: So where's the first place did you start in your life to try and find balance?

>> Claire Gray: Well, I think for me the, search for balance kind of came in the back of a burnout, which I think it does for most people. I think that you usually hit a kind of crisis point, don't you? And then you think, right, something's going to have to change. So, I can hit my burnout in my teaching career and decided I needed to shift something. And I don't know why, but the first thing I've kind of always done if I've had a crisis point is go back to the essentials of self care. So think about diet, exercise, sleep, am I doing the right things in all of these areas? And that was when I really started thinking about plant based nutrition and the role that that had in giving us that physical balance, if you like.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely, yeah. So it was work, basically your work, lack of work, life balance that got you to that point?

>> Claire Gray: I think so. And I think that's the same for a lot of people. I think we're trying to be all things to all people and very often lose ourselves in the middle of.

>> Claire Gray: That because you don't have time, do you? You're caught up and you're doing this job, whether you love it or loathe it, that will ultimately take over your life. You spend more time at work than you do with your family.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely. And it's a hard lesson to learn. I think when you do hit that point of this is no longer sustainable, you have to face some home truths about how you're going to rebalance your life and what priorities are going to be around that. but it would be nice if we could get to that realisation before we hit the burnout stage.

>> Claire Gray: I know, I know.

Food had always been a massive hobby for you

But you, and you say food. So food's your big passion, your main passion.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely.

>> Claire Gray: And plant based food in particular.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah.

>> Claire Gray: So how did that help you then achieve work, life balance? Was it a hobby or did it become a new way of life?

>> Claire Gray: Food had always been a massive hobby for me. I'm a feeder. I like to feed people and nurture people and it goes back to, what makes you feel good. And for me, you know, presenting a place plate of food to somebody else just makes me feel good. So I'd always been kind of fascinated in the whole food and nutrition aspect of life. And when I stopped and I thought, right, I really need to sort myself out, get myself and the energies back on track, the first thing I did was look at my nutrition. I wasn't plant based or vegan at the time and I'm not now. And I'm always very careful to kind of differentiate plant based from vegan. because vegan is the total elimination of all animal products and byproducts. Plant based is the elimination of most, but you allow occasional, or a limited number of them into your diet. And that's where I would place myself right now. But I started looking at the nutritional benefits of incorporating more plants in your life because we all need more plants in our lives, don't we?

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely. I totally agree. I can relate to this as well because I went through this.

>> Claire Gray: I think once you start looking at it, you kind of think, why did I not do this? Why did I not do it sooner? But it comes back to, you've probably not had time to focus on it sooner. and I just opened my eyes to the benefits and the joys of plant based eating and that became something I wanted to share with other people.

>> Claire Gray: Okay, okay.

You quit your teaching job to launch a plant based food business

So how did you share this with other people then?

>> Claire Gray: Well, I quit my teaching job with the first thing. Wow.

>> Claire Gray: Wow. So that's quite a big step.

>> Claire Gray: It was a big step because I taught for 25 years and thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved my, I worked with additional support needs and I really loved that. But it was time to kind of almost indulged my creative passions, if you like. So I called it my creative sabbatical Nice year.

>> Claire Gray: Your gap year.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, my gap year. Gap four years, as it turned out. and I decided what I wanted to do was create foods and food workshops and catering options that showcase the best of the plant world. So I set off in January 2020 and decided to launch this plant based food business that was all going to be based around food education workshops. And of course the pandemic hit. So I didn't even get plan A off before I had to go and rethink how I was going to do that. And long story short, ended up creating healthy plant based Buddha bowls in my kitchen at home and delivering them during the lockdown around the local area.

>> Claire Gray: Amazing.

>> Claire Gray: And it really took off. People really, welcomed it because I think there was a big focus on health at that point. We were all becoming much more aware of our impact on the planet for a start, because we were having this horrendous pandemic and how we were going to safeguard our own health. So there was a kind of. It feels wrong to say it, but in a lot of ways lockdown was good to me. It launched me, it gave me a platform to start supporting people to support their own health.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. And the connection with food, gut health and mental health is massive, isn't it? And we did it as a test of our mental health.

>> Claire Gray: I think you're absolutely right. And I think when people start cleaning up their diet and looking at their nutrition, they start to see the wider benefits and many things in life. It's only when you get all the pieces lined up nicely that you realise the impact your food has on mental health or your energy levels. And we really saw that up close and personal during the lockdown. Yeah.

>> Claire Gray: So that was the feedback you were getting from people that you were doing the deliveries to that they felt better.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, they were starting to explore it a bit more themselves. So I would do my twice weekly deliveries and in between they would tell me they were starting to try things out on their own, they were starting to make things, they were enjoying the plant based lifestyle. It also meant that they could have healthy food at least a couple of times a week if they weren't confident enough to try and do it on their own. So that was quite interesting, you know, just listening to that feedback and that willingness to explore it themselves.

Zoe says going plant based can be intimidating for many people

>> Claire Gray: and that is, I think that's quite the intimidating bit as well about going plant based. A lot of us don't know where to start. I think somebody said to me, oh, you have to get 30 plants in your, in your diet. A week. And I was like, what? But then when you find out what counts as a plant, whether it's spice, spices, nuts, seeds, when you start, it all starts to, to add up, doesn't it?

>> Claire Gray: exactly. And it can be overwhelming at the start because there's so much advice out there and often the advice is conflicting. Yeah. And I think for me, you know, trying to encourage people to think more about the number of plants they bring into their diet, I would always say do what's sustainable for you.

>> Claire Gray: Sure.

>> Claire Gray: So if you, if you go at something, which we all do and we're inspired to try something new, we think we're going to get brilliant health benefits from it. We tend to go to 100 miles an hour, but that's not sustainable really. So in the middle of our busy, chaotic lives, when we're trying to find balance, whatever changes we're making, they've got to be measured in a way which give us the best chance of success.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. That you can then continue it through it. Yeah. It's sustainable throughout your life. So, so you were offering a service obviously that was helping people do that. you were introducing people possibly to plants that they'd never eaten before or never cooked in a certain way before.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah.

>> Claire Gray: So you, you were educating them.

>> Claire Gray: That's right. It was just kind of showcasing what you can do that when you think about, we took the word vegan interestingly out of the equation because what we realised very early on was that's a loaded word for people. It has political connotations for some people, it has very extreme connotations for people. And by simply changing the language around plant based eating, it made it more accessible. So getting that message right was really interesting for us. That was a learning curve.

>> Claire Gray: So I always laugh. My dad can't say it, he always calls it vegan. He's like, they're vegans. I know there's nothing vague about being a vegan. Do you know, it's just like. So just what language you use can change people's perception and plant based shouldn't be intimidating to anybody, should.

>> Claire Gray: It's not. And the reality is we probably have more plants in our life than we know at the get go. So all we were saying when we were having these workshops with people or we were putting new things in the menu was this is just a different way of looking at the world of plants. It's just a different way of cooking, a different way of embracing natural, whole food goodness. And we were always, and you'll know this yourself, it's Very, very easy to be an unhealthy vegan at the moment because of the number of processed, highly refined foods that are on the supermarket shelves. The onus for us was always on fresh, whole foods that were going to give you maximum bang for your buck if you like, you were going to get as many vitamins, nutrients and minerals out of your meal and diversity points as well as possible. And it meant going back to basics.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. And cooking from scratch rather than buying until to process. What's your thoughts on Zoe? There's way nutrition.

>> Claire Gray: I think it's a really interesting experiment and I know a lot of people have done it and it's giving them that very personalised, individualised eating plan. The thing that I don't so much like about it is the high cost point on it, which means it's not accessible to everybody. It's still something which not enough people can probably do. But I think it does highlight the fact that different foods react differently to in individuals and that like anything in life, finding our sweet, sweet spot, if you like, on our diets is about experimentation. It's about trying what makes us feel good, what makes us feel bad. I mean we know that ourselves. We just have to be interested enough. I always think we're like our own live experiments, don't you?

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And they talk about likes of Zoe when they talk about the microbiome, they talk about that being your internal pharmacy.

>> Claire Gray: That's right.

>> Claire Gray: I did it. It was my 50th birthday present myself was I gifted myself that. And you're right, it's expensive but I saw it as an investment exactly in my health, which I needed at the time and it certainly opened my eyes to a lot wider range of different foods, plant based foods in particular. So how soon if you start. If you started on a plant based diet. If somebody started on a plant based diet, for example, next week, how long do you think before they would see the benefits of it?

>> Claire Gray: I think depending on whether or not you get your combinations right, of carbs, fats, proteins and all the rest of it, you should start to feel the impact within one to two weeks you should start to feel more energised. the brain fog might lift. What I'm always quick to point out though is it's, it doesn't work the same for everybody. It's a bit like you're saying with the Zoe experiment, it just doesn't work the same for everybody. So I started out, when I went down this road, going straight for the 100% vegan and I maybe did it for about six weeks. Didn't work for me at all. I didn't feel great. during that I, I was probably not getting the right amount of protein and I was probably eating more carbs than I would normally do. And the sweet spot for me is to reduce the carbs and slightly elevate the proteins in my diet. So that then meant I had to experiment a bit more. So by all means I think going at it with a moderate approach is what's going to give you that sustainable success. The all or nothing approach seldom gives you that long term win I don't think.

>> Claire Gray: No, I mean I think my first if somebody was to ask me a quick like a swap or something that they could do because it's difficult to know where to start as well isn't it? But like the carbs and the protein thing, I swapped my pasta for beans and then found all of a sudden I've got way more energy and I know where the expression full of beans must come from because of way more energy than I've ever had just by adding one food source into my diet.

>> Claire Gray: I think that's right and small changes make sustainable long term impact I think. And what I always go back to is as most people do, the Mediterranean diet. I think they've absolutely nailed it. They've got ah, that lovely balance of a predominantly plant based diet. But they really carefully select the proteins whether it's those oily fishes or occasional lean meat that's high in beans, pulses, nuts, olive oil, all the good fats. Yeah, fats.

>> Claire Gray: I mean there's something people are scared of.

>> Claire Gray: Exactly. I know and ah, that's such a hard one to get Ryan because we've all grown up with this message of reduce your fat intake, it's got to be low fat when in actual fact we need those really good healthy fats to fully function particularly for brain and heart health. So as you get older I think you start to look at these things a bit more as well. Don't you start to realise that your diet's about longevity? It's not just about your physical look, it's about long term health.

>> Claire Gray: And I think it's just the word people relate it to fat make you.

>> Claire Gray: Fat, makes you fat.

>> Claire Gray: It doesn't, you know, it helps you absorb vitamins, it's so good for your skin, so many reasons that you, that you should have it in your diet.

Another area that I struggle with in life for balance is social life

So in terms of work, life balance, then looking at nutrition, another area That I think I really struggle with in my life for balance is social life. Okay, so we know that human connection is really good for our mental health in particular. And spending time with friends and family makes us feel good. But also there's like an added pressure. It's like people vying for your time. And how do you get that balance between spending time seeing people and seeing enough of people, but also having time for yourself as well? How do you think you can achieve this without alienating yourself from people?

>> Claire Gray: I think one of the things I've learned just from the number of people I've spoken to, particularly during the bakery years, is that you can have it all throughout your life, just not all at the same moments in your life. Okay, so there's a type, there's seasons. Do you not think there's seasons in your life? There's seasons when you focus on different things.

>> Claire Gray: Yes. Yeah, I guess so.

>> Claire Gray: and there's a time in your life when you may be focused on your work and achieving more and doing more and getting that promotion. And then that focus has to shift to the important things like raising your kids and making sure that you're spending enough time, proper, good quality time with your partner and your kids, raising that family. So you're putting well rounded individuals back out into the world. And then I've come to this point in my life. We'll call it the middle years though.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, let's do that. Since we can both relate to the middle years.

>> Claire Gray: It's a great time, It's a time of enlightenment. And I've kind of realised more and more the importance of friendships and investing in those connections.

The biggest indicator for a happy, healthy old age is your relationships

And I was really interested, reading recently about the Good Life project, you know that Harvard, University experiment, which was a long term, health and wellbeing experiment they did, spanning over nearly 80 years. And it talked about the market for a healthy old age. When you're in your middle age now, we all think of things like, is your blood pressure good? Is your cholesterol level at the right level? And what this experiment actually showed was this revelation around relationships that the markers for good health in your old age were that you had really healthy connections around the 50 mark.

>> Claire Gray: Right. Or this age in particular.

>> Claire Gray: This age in particular. So when you hit the middle years, when they're looking at your profile, it's the biggest indicator for a happy, healthy old age is the quality of your relationships at this point in time and the connections that you've developed.

>> Claire Gray: I didn't know that. I knew the whole like the Blue zone thing, I've looked at that and the people that reach their 80s, 90s have all got good relationships, good healthy friendships or relationships and connections. But I didn't know that this point, your life is important.

>> Claire Gray: I think it's because this is the point where they look at you and think, oh, how's it looking for the next 20, 30 years? What's your future looking like? But I think in terms of the balance, what I've come to realise is that it's way more about the quality of friendships than the quantity of friendships. So I focus on the connections that really matter to me and I think that's where we need to set boundaries around things like social media, where we're in this world that your follower count is everything. How many friends have you got following you? It doesn't matter. And I think you can see that with a bit more confidence the older you get. I think there's a huge pressure on young people to try and maintain that social life that is again unsustainable. and the older you get, the more you realise you kind of cut through all the bullshit, don't you? And you realise that's not what's important. What's important is maybe the two, three, four really good friends I've seen you through the last three decades, four decades of your life that you really want to hold on to. Connections with your family, your kids, those people. and that's where I choose to put my energy now.

>> Claire Gray: Yes. I mean I think probably something that has come with age for me that I'm finding easier. Something I've never been good at saying was no to people, you know, especially for a night out or, you know, always felt obliged to go even if I wasn't in the right mood for it or sometimes even at the risk of double booking things. I know, but I am finding that easier. But you find sometimes it's like you are pecking people like you are. You're putting them in a position of who's most important which never seems very, it seems a bit cutthroat but times pressing.

>> Claire Gray: Well, it is precious and I think it's a, it's a form of self care. I think setting boundaries is a form of self care. Otherwise you give so much of yourself to so many people that you're spread too thin.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah.

>> Claire Gray: And you can't give the best of yourself to you personally and to the people around you that really need you. So yeah, I feel okay about that now that guilt's kind of gone for me. I think I've also become a little bit, stricter with myself about the people I keep in my life.

>> Claire Gray: Yes.

>> Claire Gray: I think there are people who drain you, drain your energy level drains and radiators. Yes, that's right. And there can be toxic friendships which in your younger years, you don't maybe have the confidence to either confront or put to one side. But as you get older, again, it's back to, there's a benefit to being this age, isn't there? There's just lessons learned. And you think, I don't want that. I don't want that drama, that fuss. I want positivity around me. M. I want to be that positive person for others. And I can only do that if I'm surrounding myself with the right people as well.

>> Claire Gray: I know, I know. It's this whole thing though, isn't it, between what's classed as selfish and self care.

>> Claire Gray: That's right. That's right. And I think that is a fine balance to get right. Because I think one of the reasons people burn out is because they're trying very hard not to be selfish. They're trying very hard to be all things to all people. just not possible. Not a meaningful, authentic kind of way. Not in any way like that. And I think there are times when it's actually okay to be selfish. I agree. It's okay to do that as long as you're not hurting people. Do you know what I mean? I think that's the line, isn't it? You're not hurting people, you're taking care of the people you love. Yes.

>> Claire Gray: And you're being careful with your time or you're allocating your time wisely.

How much time should you spend on social media and technology

I mean, you touched on it there as well. The technology side of things, that's, Again, if you have a business like I have and you have, where you rely on online followers, there's a balance there, isn't there? How much time to spend on social media and technology, how much it can interfere with your life, how much it removes you from being in the moment. Because that's another challenge. We've all got to live in the moment. yet we're supposed to be online and keep up to date and keep connected. What's your thoughts on that?

>> Claire Gray: Do you know, sometimes I want to conduct a huge social experiment where we all put our phones down across the globe hours to see what would happen.

>> Claire Gray: Wow.

>> Claire Gray: I call it the necessary evil.

>> Claire Gray: It is. I agree.

>> Claire Gray: And, you're right. When you've got a business, you can't shy away from it. You've got to engage in those platforms. But I find it a huge drain on my energy. I think that we're all playing the social media game. The rules change, the goal posts change. How many times should you post, when should you post, what's your follower count? Nope, that's not working. They've changed it again. Let's go back. Let's. And actually, we're just all on the hamster heel.

>> Claire Gray: We are. Does it ever make you angry?

>> Claire Gray: Very, very angry.

>> Claire Gray: Thank goodness it's not just me.

>> Claire Gray: No. I sometimes think I want to stay. I'm not playing anymore.

>> Claire Gray: That's exactly weird. I would take the half stamp in my feet.

>> Claire Gray: I don't want to play anymore. I want to step right back and just go back to conversations or pen and paper sometimes. M. Without sounding like a luddy. I want to, you know, it's a.

>> Claire Gray: Necessary evil, as you say, isn't it?

>> Claire Gray: And I really saw the damage of social media as a teacher on young people who were so addicted to the technological world and to those fast reward mechanisms that they were engaging with that constant brain stimulus that what you really saw in the classroom was that translated to an inability to learn in any deep way if there wasn't immediate reward. So our, expectations as teachers that kids would come into the class, sit down, engage in a lesson for up to an hour, I mean, that's false. Now that can't happen in a world where young people have a reward system in their brain that is totally different from you and I.

>> Claire Gray: So an hour, an hour of their time would be too much to ask.

>> Claire Gray: You have to chunk those activities now into much shorter, meaningful, achievable steps. I think young people really struggle with traditional ways. Some classrooms and forward thinking schools are moving with the times and embracing technology for learning. But as on a human level, I would look at the impact of technology on young minds and think, how are we gonna pull that back? How are we gonna reverse that? And the damage that's being done and we know about the toxic damage that's done through social media for teenagers particularly, it's a difficult world for them to navigate and for us as adults to support them to navigate. but yeah, very often I just, I want to say, no, I'm not playing anymore. I don't like it.

>> Claire Gray: I try everything you talk about it. I find, I'm a grown up and I find a addictive, you know, I've tried all sorts of tricks that, you know, like so my phone's on silent all the time. But it means that I tend to check it more often.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah.

>> Claire Gray: So if the ringer's on, that disturbs me too much. If it's on silent, I keep checking it in case I missed something, which I usually haven't. Then you can hide certain apps so you don't see them all the time. But again, then I check. I know I put the phone in another room, but it's just a constant battle to not be checking to see what you may or may not be missing out on.

>> Claire Gray: And that's such a. That's such an alarm bell almost, though, isn't it? Even if I sit down, to watch a film at night and I'm watching telly at night, I can't just enjoy the cello, but I have to be looking at my phone every five minutes and then I'm picking it up again and picking it up again, and it becomes an addictive, quite a toxic trait. and you're looking for that dopamine hit of a like or a share or something like that all the time. We've come to crave it. But I could happily, if somebody said to me, tomorrow, social media is no longer going to exist. We have to go back to.

>> Claire Gray: Yes.

>> Claire Gray: I would feel the release of that, I think, because, I think we all do at times need a digital detox.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. No, I agree. I have to be very careful at, nighttime or in the evenings. You talk there about, like, being on the tv. I do that TV and phone. So then I try and watch subtitle stuff so I have to focus on it. But I find, like, that last hour before I go to my bed, if I've been too active on social media, I cannot get the brain relaxed to sleep.

>> Claire Gray: Exactly. Right.

>> Claire Gray: And sleep. Something that we need.

>> Claire Gray: Oh, yeah.

>> Claire Gray: Especially in the middle years.

>> Claire Gray: Oh, yeah. I'm glad you raised that. It's such a big part of balance to sleep, isn't it? Yeah. And I do think, particularly women, we hit a certain age where I always could pride myself on my ability to sleep for Scotland. It's a family trait. And we could all nap for Scotland as well. We're great at it. And then I hit 49, 50.

>> Claire Gray: Uh-huh.

>> Claire Gray: And that changed. And no one was more surprised than me because I thought I was going to sail through that, that kind of side of things. And I really had to look hard at the impact of not getting enough sleep on my overall wellbeing.

I went through a phase where I hardly slept at all

It's a foundation, isn't it?

>> Claire Gray: I think so, yeah. I mean, I need my sleep and I Recognise that I went through a phase that I was trying. I was going to my bed. It was ridiculous. My friend's newborn baby was getting less sleep than me. We reckon I was going to my bed at 8 at night, 8, 9 o'clock at night. And then waking up in the morning like I had not slept a wink.

>> Claire Gray: I know.

>> Claire Gray: And it's so frustrating because it changes your mood for the whole day ahead, doesn't it?

>> Claire Gray: oh, completely. And I've tried lots of things. I kind of went through a period of about eight months where I hardly slept at all. And I very quickly realised, I could get to sleep no problem. I would wake up sometimes one or two hours in and I realised I hadn't even made it into the next day. It was still on the near side of midnight. And I very quickly realised that you have to take the stress out. I know it's sleeping because it just keeps the whole cycle going if you get stressed about it. So I would just, just open the Kindle immediately and read a book or get up and get a cup of tea or do something rather than lie and worry. Yes.

>> Claire Gray: Cause I had one of those apps that told you how many hours sleep you were getting or not getting and you're right, that's more stressful.

>> Claire Gray: It's not helpful. I know. And then you realise even if you've done a seven hour shift that you've actually only had one hour of deep sleep quality. So then you start worrying about you might asleep but it's not quality, you know.

What has shifted the pattern into a healthier sleep pattern for me is taking magnesium supplement

So how much pressure do I want to put on your sleep?

>> Claire Gray: What do you think is the optimum amount of sleep you need?

>> Claire Gray: Or do you think we all differ?

>> Claire Gray: I think we all differ. But they say anywhere between six and eight hours is kind of optimum. I take the view now that even if I wake in the middle of that, my body's resting.

>> Claire Gray: Yes.

>> Claire Gray: Which is good. What has hugely shifted the pattern into a healthier sleep pattern for me is taking a magnesium supplement.

>> Claire Gray: I do the same. Which is which one? Because I find that confusing how many different types of magnesium supplements there are.

>> Claire Gray: I take the one. I take a Holland and Barrett one. I don't know if I can brand names here. M. And They only had one when I went in. It was one kind of strength.

>> Claire Gray: Okay.

>> Claire Gray: And I take that along with vitamin D as well. And that seems to have had an impact. Take it at nighttime. Took probably about four or five weeks for that to build up in my system. Enough to have a notable impact on my Sleep. But it's definitely broken the cycle for me.

>> Claire Gray: Okay, okay. And in terms of, I mean, so something I do, so I do the magnesium, same as you. Vitamin D, I can't live without. Because we live in Scotland, we don't get enough of the sunlight, we don't get enough vitamin D. I found my new thing the last year has been walking. So getting up and getting morning light and where possible, if I can get the evening light as well, to try and get that circadian rhythm going. Do you think in terms of exercise and movement that's enough to be just doing the walking or do you think we need more than that or.

>> Claire Gray: Personally, I think exercise is something m we could do. Unless you're really, really into your fitness, I think exercise is something we could all look a bit more at. I think nothing beats a walk in the fresh air, fast paced walk in the fresh air. Because you're, you're ticking so many boxes at the same time. You have got that, mental health benefit of being out and about in nature and getting fresh air. You've got the fitness benefit. When I closed the food business last year, I had joked that I got all my fitness in the kitchen. I called it my kitchen fitness because I was on my feet all day running about, lifting heavy things, moving, bending, stretching, all the rest of it. And I thought, God, when I stop the bakery, I'm going to have to do something to compensate for this. So I set myself the 5K challenge. Having never run in my life, having always believed I was a non runner, having always been very much into walking and believing that that had, you know, all the health benefits I needed. But the running thing just opened up a whole new ball game for me.

>> Claire Gray: Okay.

>> Claire Gray: Because the high you get, the runners high is incredible. The achievement of doing something that you didn't think you could do was incredible. The very quick notable difference in lung capacity was a real boost to motivation because what I realised was I was really changing my physical ability and at the age of 50 I was really shifting things up a gear and that felt great. So I kind of think even if we're doing something we really enjoy, which we think, yeah, I've covered the fitness thing because I'm doing that. There's always things we can learn about ourselves. We can always push ourselves to achieve something more or to, to start, doing more weights, higher weights, you know, more reps, whatever it is, you're right.

>> Claire Gray: There as well, that sense of achievement.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah.

>> Claire Gray: Because I can remember in my 40s trying to get into clothes for example, that would say, oh, I'll never get into them again. They fit to me in my 20s and 30s. But I can forget about that now. And going to fitness classes and feeling, oh, I can't do that. Oh, I'm a bit older now. Oh, my joints are sore. And then all of a sudden that will change on the lead up to my 50th birthday. And I think somebody at some point had made me watch Hustlers with JLo. So that would do it. Yeah. Well, that's it. So. And you're thinking, what age is she?

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, I know.

>> Claire Gray: And I actually end up making a mantra, my own mantra from seven months leading up to my 50th. I was gonna be JLO by July.

>> Claire Gray: Good for you.

>> Claire Gray: I push myself to be as fit as her. But I think once, you've got that mindset that you can do that age doesn't make any difference.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely.

>> Claire Gray: You can be stronger than you've ever been. 50 and beyond, you know.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely. We've got this tendency to, thank God at 50, you've got more years behind you than you've got in front of you. But that doesn't mean the ones in front of you don't matter, you know. And again, I would say it's all about, I think about what I'm doing now as playing the long game.

>> Claire Gray: Okay.

>> Claire Gray: So in terms of diet, exercise, self care, routines, connections that we're making, all the things we've talked about, I think about that being my investment in a healthier old age. Yeah, yeah. Because I, I don't want to, to be unhealthy and unfit and not able to enjoy the people around me or adventures in life because I didn't put the time and energy in now.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, yeah. And get. Your quality of life will be better. And it's all about tiny habits, isn't it? Slight changes to your day.

>> Claire Gray: Exactly.

>> Claire Gray: Can make the world a difference.

>> Claire Gray: Yes, absolutely. And I think, do you know, I think a big part of that is getting to know yourself.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely, yes. Yes.

>> Claire Gray: And I think again, that's something that is another joy of getting older. You've maybe done more things around personal growth.

The number of young people talking about exercise for their mental health is huge

You've maybe read more things that have given you insights into yourself you didn't know were there when you were younger.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. You've done the work.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, you've done the work. You've put the hours in and you're beginning to see the benefits of it.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. And then when you feel better, when you see that impact, that small change, say, for me, My morning walks for my mental health, you know, it's made such a dramatic change that you don't want to let that go, you know.

>> Claire Gray: No, absolutely. Because you get And I think that's one of the, again, one of the good things that came out of COVID was particularly for young people that really struggled with COVID and isolation around that. The number of young people I hear about talking around the benefits of exercise for their mental health is huge. Way more than before. It was always just about exercise for exercise. But now they see, see the different knock on effects of having a structured routine where they get outside, they're in nature, they're out running, they're going to the gym. And it's very much m about promoting good mental health. And I love that because those connections have been made.

>> Claire Gray: That's right, yeah. And it's a healthy addiction to have sort of things.

>> Claire Gray: Absolutely.

>> Claire Gray: You feel good.

Every small step that you make individually has a collective bigger impact

another thing that I wanted to cover off as well, like another thing I struggle with or find a challenge is the whole. And maybe it's my Catholic guilt that's in there already, I don't know. But the guilt of being like an eco conscious customer, like what I'm buying, I'm living sustainably, I'm always choosing the greenest option. Am I doing the right recycling things like that, that just puts added pressure onto you, doesn't it?

>> Claire Gray: I think it does and I think it's because again, it's a bit like the plant based eating thing. We tend to look at the all or nothing approaches and again, again, it's back to everything in moderation, isn't it? Or do what you can do because every small step that you make that we all make individually has a collective bigger impact. And you know, you hear people saying, oh, what difference does it make if I recycle or not? You know, I'm one person makes a huge, huge difference because we can only control ourselves as individuals. But it's that collective impact that's really going to make a difference longer term. And there are things you can do like just buy more locally or eat more seasonally. Make sure that you're not always buying things that have been flown in from the other side of the world. think about how we get about, can we walk more often than take the car? Just little things like that make a big difference. And I think if you're making a conscious effort that really, really counts. I think if you're making a conscious effort to make small changes in your life towards a more sustainable future, you need to put that Catholic guilt to the side. Don't you let that get in the way.

You gave up your full time job to focus on your skincare business

>> Claire Gray: Well, something else I guess like talking about that is resilience. We touched on it earlier on. You build up over the years, you build up the emotional resilience, don't you? And you're better able to cope with things going back to the work life balance. now I've gone through similar experience to you as I've had burnout with my career on more than one occasion and I gave up my full time job just last year to focus on my skincare business and podcast as well now it seems. but for me, although I still have different stresses, maybe more financial stress I didn't have before, but I think for me, finding a purpose to my life and real meaning to my life has given me way more satisfaction and released a lot of the, any, kind of potential depression or mental health issues that I might have because I feel like I'm doing something I want to do. And I think so many of us get caught up in having a salary to pay the bills, but we're doing jobs that we hate. We're under so much pressure, we're under appreciated. You know, we feel undervalued. And there's so many people living that life. And I was talking to somebody just last night, night, and I saw somebody that's got this amazing opportunity of a promotion. But m. Within six months, I can see the difference in them and that they are not a happy person anymore. And they were buzzing when they got this. They were so buzzing they were on top of the world. But now within months they feel deflated. You know, it's trying to find what lights you up.

>> Claire Gray: I think that's so true because we live in this society where sadly, I think a lot of the time we're still measured by our wealth and our status rather than who we are on a human level. The things that really matter, like the connections that we're making and all these things which drive us to do more, be more, have more, are always going to take a toll, I think eventually. Because I think the thing with. I don't know if you felt the same, but certainly for me, the big kind of thing around burnout is it's not just about working too hard for too long. It's not just about that. I think a burnout happens when the personal values that drive you as a person are, so at odds with the values that you see being played around you in the workplace that it just crushes you. It just Crushes your soul and you can't tolerate it any longer. Longer.

>> Claire Gray: I 100 agree with you because I spent a career bringing in, buying and buying, buying a retail buyer bringing in a lot of rubbish, a lot of stuff that people don't need that's going straight to landfill. It went against every grain of my being, but I felt I still had to carry on and do this job because it was paying the bills.

>> Claire Gray: That's right.

>> Claire Gray: And yeah, you lose yourself eventually, don't you?

>> Claire Gray: Oh, you really do. And that goes back to. To what you said at the start of this about purpose. And I think when you realise that you've lost yourself, that you've become isolated in a world you don't really want to be in and a job you don't really want to do for whatever reason, you have to start going back to some really difficult soul searching personally around what is your purpose, what really drives you. And I love that you've had this journey that's brought you here today. And you look so happy. You look so happy and radiant. And that's somebody who's found that their purpose, they know what their values, their driving values are in life and that that impact you're going to have on the world around you is going to be so much brighter because you've managed to take yourself from that situation that was crushing you into something that's letting you shine.

>> Claire Gray: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you. Made me cry.

Catherine says people should focus on three areas of self care first

So, in terms of. We've covered a lot of different areas here which are all linked to self care, you know, and how you balance these out. But if somebody right now is feeling really overwhelmed and they feel they've lost themselves and they need to find bal. What three areas do you think they should focus on first? What three areas of self care?

>> Claire Gray: What areas of their life?

>> Claire Gray: Yeah. Do you think will have the most impact in the shortest space of time?

>> Claire Gray: It's almost like Maslow's hierarchy, isn't it, about what we need to. I'd go back to diet, sleep, exercise, get the physiological needs, get your physiological needs met first. Because until you've done that, you can't start doing the things around connections and personal growth that are going to help you to move your life on even further. You need to get the basics under control. so always diet, exercise, sleep, go back to them.

>> Claire Gray: And they're easy ones to sort, aren't they? We spoke about the walking or running earlier on that's so accessible to all.

>> Claire Gray: It's free.

>> Claire Gray: Sleep is free. As far as I know. You just need to work a bit harder to get it sometimes. And diet, it's just what choices you make, isn't it?

>> Claire Gray: It is. It's about making healthy choices, finding the balance that's right for you. As a go to, I would point everybody to the Mediterranean diet as a starting point. Ye. And from there determine what is your balance going to be between plant based and fish and meat. Keep it whole food, keep it fresh. Get as many nutrients in your system as possible because that will allow your body to start a recovery process. If you are looking at it from the point of view of recovering from a burnout or a period in your life which has been particularly stressful, you need to regenerate the cells throughout your body. Let's get the good stuff in. Yep.

>> Claire Gray: Brilliant. Thank you. And if people want to find out more from you, Catherine, where can they find you?

>> Claire Gray: So at the moment I'm on the things that I hate Instagram, the necessary evil, under Bareface Life. and in coming months we're going to be launching a website which will be bringing together resources around all aspects of health and well being. So moving out from the passion of food to incorporate wider things like how do you live sustainably and how do you appreciate the small things, mental health, all of that.

>> Claire Gray: Okay, brilliant. Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate, appreciate it.

>> Claire Gray: It's been lovely talking you too.